World of Warcraft

Originally posted by fuzzylojik

Originally posted by AcidicTRG

1.  Battlegrounds - be prepared to spend most of your life in here if you even want to try and compete.  There's a massive world that goes ignored while 90% of players are in here lookin for gear.

You'd be whining if there weren't any BGs at all, so it's kind of a lose-lose for Blizzard (or any developer for that matter). Nothing is ever good enough for you people. Either they don't have battlegrounds and people cry about not having things to do, or they have battlegrounds and people cry that they aren't good enough.

Probably be whining EVEN more if there weren't any BGs at all (like in release). 

Just like PvErs would be whining if there was 1 final instanced dungeon added in TBC and 4 endgame instances overall.

If there were like 20 and he said it was not enough I would say it was exaggerated but 4 compared to the number of PvE instances?

BGs are fun when they came out.  Too few.  Not massive.  That's it.

Hold on a second.   Yeah, there are only 4 BG's, but that's not the extent of the PvP options, so let's not compare it to all of the PvE instances.  Along with the 4 BG's, there are 3v3, 4v4 and 5v5 Arenas, both competitive and just for fun.  Along with that there is a PvP ladder server with nothing but PvP on it.  On top of that there are many many PvP objectives thrown about all over the world,  I believe that most zones in Outlands have one.  And that still leaves plenty of opportunities for spontaneous World PvP to occur anytime you see someone from the opposite faction on PvP servers.  For the all the talk of no World PvP, I still seem to be engaged in it just about everytime I'm in a zone in Outlands just trying to level up.  And Blizzard is going to add a full zone of PvP in the next expansion.  So while the PvP opportunities may not be quite up to snuff with the PvE options, there's a little more than the 4 BG's have to offer.  There are plenty of opportunities for PvP for everyone.

 

 

BG's remembers me some kind of medieval counter strike.

Pay a fee to play it each month?

Counter strike has more maps and some real play balance at least

Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by fuzzylojik

Originally posted by AcidicTRG

1.  Battlegrounds - be prepared to spend most of your life in here if you even want to try and compete.  There's a massive world that goes ignored while 90% of players are in here lookin for gear.

You'd be whining if there weren't any BGs at all, so it's kind of a lose-lose for Blizzard (or any developer for that matter). Nothing is ever good enough for you people. Either they don't have battlegrounds and people cry about not having things to do, or they have battlegrounds and people cry that they aren't good enough.

Probably be whining EVEN more if there weren't any BGs at all (like in release). 

Just like PvErs would be whining if there was 1 final instanced dungeon added in TBC and 4 endgame instances overall.

If there were like 20 and he said it was not enough I would say it was exaggerated but 4 compared to the number of PvE instances?

BGs are fun when they came out.  Too few.  Not massive.  That's it.

Hold on a second.   Yeah, there are only 4 BG's, but that's not the extent of the PvP options, so let's not compare it to all of the PvE instances.  Along with the 4 BG's, there are 3v3, 4v4 and 5v5 Arenas, both competitive and just for fun.  Along with that there is a PvP ladder server with nothing but PvP on it.  On top of that there are many many PvP objectives thrown about all over the world,  I believe that most zones in Outlands have one.  And that still leaves plenty of opportunities for spontaneous World PvP to occur anytime you see someone from the opposite faction on PvP servers.  For the all the talk of no World PvP, I still seem to be engaged in it just about everytime I'm in a zone in Outlands just trying to level up.  And Blizzard is going to add a full zone of PvP in the next expansion.  So while the PvP opportunities may not be quite up to snuff with the PvE options, there's a little more than the 4 BG's have to offer.  There are plenty of opportunities for PvP for everyone.

As I said, 4 BGs + arena.  (including the tiers) is just not good for PvP.  The world PvP objectives are not endgame and you're only doing it while ur levelling incidentally up or being ganked.  There is no more Massive PvP as there should be in an MMO.  People being ganked by other while PvEing is not good PvP.  You're in PvE gear, PvE spec whoa you got jumped by a rogue! world pvp? lol.

How many times have you engaged in end-game (max level) purposeful PvP in the world (while not battling for PvE objectives or ganking PvErs?)

Blizzards zone of PvP sounds like a step in the right direction but still.... 4 years too late and seems reactionary to WAR.  Why add it suddenly after 4 years?  Why talk about adding siege for 4 years and not do it?

Why shouldn't you compare it to all the PvE instances?  What was added to PvP in TBC? 1 BG, Halaa (which to me is fail), and arenas.  What did they add to Pve?........ hmmm how many instances, mobs, quests etc....

So as you said, the PvP opportunities aren't up to snuff with the PvE options, and I fully agree with you there.

I simply left out world PvP because it is pretty much dead except for levelling, gankers and incidental passing.  There is no real concrete and progressive PvP objectives and most of it is item or loot driven.

Of course they are different scales to everyone's acceptance of adequate PvP and for me it doesn't cut it and still feels like a PvE centric game.

On top of that there are..

No PvP quests.

No PvP large world objectives that actually matter in the long run.

No PvP progression.

No sieges or keep captures (cept for towers for PvE control) to date.

No mainly PvP zones.

There maybe many aspects of PvE where wow shines but for the serious PvPer, its nowhere near what an massive pvp centric game should be.

In a PvP centric game objectives won't be increasing PvE dominance, more like the other way around.

There is not plenty of opportunities for PvP for everyone, because its not enough PvP for me and last I looked, I'm part of everyone.

WoW has two problems... its was released in 2004 with a graphics engine designed to accomidate everyone so by 2008 standards its looking dated and two, it came out in 2004 so the bulk of us have had our fill.  Doesn't make anything that has come since better, just different and after years in WoW that's really all it takes.  WoW is still the benchmark for what MMO quality and content should be though.

Originally posted by fuzzylojik

Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by fuzzylojik

Originally posted by AcidicTRG

As I said, 4 BGs + arena. 

Plus a dedicated PvP server.  I don't believe there's anything like this for any other MMO except maybe Fury which was designed as a PvP only game.

How many times have you engaged in end-game (max level) purposeful PvP in the world (while not battling for PvE objectives or ganking PvErs?)

Oh, I don't know, maybe a couple dozen times.  Have besieged Halaa on occasion.  Been known to break up a few Horde parties at the ring of blood.  Have fought over the towers in Terrokar Forest a few times.  Even beseiged Orgrimmar a couple times...oh but wait those are all either PvE objectives or ganking PvErs.  Guess I don't really need any "purposeful" PvP, I just like to engage in PvP I guess.  Guess that's why I chose a PvP server.  Not all of us NEED a purpose to engage in something we enjoy.

Blizzards zone of PvP sounds like a step in the right direction but still.... 4 years too late and seems reactionary to WAR.  Why add it suddenly after 4 years?  Why talk about adding siege for 4 years and not do it?

Better late than never.  It's not like they have been doing nothing in the last 4 years.  They added a PvP honor system then revamped it, 4 BG's, Arena's, several PvP world objectives and a full blown PvP tournament server.  Slackers.

Why shouldn't you compare it to all the PvE instances?  What was added to PvP in TBC? 1 BG, Halaa (which to me is fail),

Since it's fail to you, it's fail to everyone?  Personally I think it's a lot of fun.  The bombing runs are a great way for people with toons below 70 to help out and those geared for PvP get to rush the town.  What's not to like?  Is it used much?  Not a lot, but it's still there and I still see it change hands everyday.

No PvP quests.

Incorrect.  There are daily PvP quest in Honor Hold and Terrokar forrest which are actually pretty popular.  I see people capturing them all the time.  Granted that much of the time someone just runs in unapposed, but you'll see people fight over the objectives too.

No PvP progression.

Not sure what you mean by this.

No sieges or keep captures (cept for towers for PvE control) to date.

But coming in the next expansion.

No mainly PvP zones.

But coming in the next expansion.

There maybe many aspects of PvE where wow shines but for the serious PvPer, its nowhere near what an massive pvp centric game should be.

That's because it's NOT a PvP centric game.  The PvE and PvP sides are fairly well balanced.  It might tip a bit in favor of the PvE side, but it's not as bad as you're making it out.

In a PvP centric game objectives won't be increasing PvE dominance, more like the other way around.

Like I said, it's NOT a PvP centric game.  It caters to both the PvP player and non PvP player.  Sorry that's not what you prefer, many do.

There is not plenty of opportunities for PvP for everyone, because its not enough PvP for me and last I looked, I'm part of everyone.

A very small part.

 

 

Reason why WoW sucks to experienced MMO veterans:

It's too easy, and mindnumbing.

Reason why WoW is awesome for everyone else:

It's too easy, and mindnumbing.

Originally posted by Malvolentia

and why I left it for those glancing over looking for a new game.

TLDR:  WoW sucks. look elsewhere

1.  Battlegrounds - be prepared to spend most of your life in here if you even want to try and compete.  There's a massive world that goes ignored while 90% of players are in here lookin for gear.

2.  Arenas - A failed attempt at an Electronic sport.  Even most players hate it.  Blizzard won't give it up so it's left as the major focus of the game.  Forget raiding Orgrimmar or Stormwind! hop in this cage for endless hours.

3.  The world is a lie.

4.  You either PvP or PvE, there's no in between.  The gear you get in pve won't help you in pvp and vice versa.  At one point you could do group dungeons and pvp and both aspects were rewarded.  not anymore.

5.  There's just no meaningful endgame. 

 

Thanks for reading.  You'd thank me if you only knew.

I left wow a fair while ago, because I just got plain bored tbh, however I wouldn't say I agree with much of what you have said personally...

1. Under the pvp old ranking system, sure you needed to spend damn near 24 hours in the bgs if you wanted to get the top gear and ranks.  In the new system this is not nearly as bad, however I would say when the new system initially came in, there was a total gold rush for gear because in comparison to how hard it used to be to get it, it became childs play.  By the time I left, this had calmed down a lot.

2. Arenas.  I played pvp extensively before the ranking system but once that was removed pvp lost a lot of interest for me, not to mention being a kick in the balls for the countless hours I had spent in the bgs before the change...  Anyway, can't say that the arenas held much attraction for me and I never set a virtual foot in a single one.  Maybe a lot of people felt the same?

3. Well....obviously the world is not real....not sure what you mean by this.

4. I disagree with there being no crossover between pvp and pve.  A top level raid armor set has always outstripped a top level pvp armor set.  Generally the stats were always slightly improved but the MAJOR addition was the resistances, pvp gear never had resistances, I assume this is still the case.  However I would say that for exactly the same reasons, a pvp armor set will not fair well in any but the most basic top level dungeons, so a pure pvper will struggle if they choose to switch to pve and raiding.

5. No mmorpg will never allow you to feel you have truly completed it.  If this was the case, people would just complete it and move on cancelling their subscription.  The cre