Everquest II

Hello all

I recently started playing EQ2 again and I must admit that I am rather hooked. Its certainly one of the better mmo's in my opinion. However despite its many good points there is one particular area of the game that really grates on my nerves.

EQ2 is based on a good vs evil plot. When you create a character you are forced to choose a side. If you are one of the good races then you must start in Qeynos or Kelethin. If you are evil then you must start in Freeport or Neriak. I personally like playing as a dwarf, so I started in Qeynos.

So there I am happily venturing across the land and swinging my axe at the forces of evil and along comes a gnarly old troll. I bring my axe up ready and snarl defiantly at the beast. In response the troll grins and says "Wanna join my group?". This happens all the time with ogres, dark elves, ratonga and any other evil races wanting to go adventuring with me.

I know that I could play on a PvP server (not a big fan of that though to be honest) but that still doesnt get around the fact that players can betray their home cities and go to the opposing side. I'm sorry but there is no chance in hell that Antonia Bayle would ever allow a troll to wander the streets of Qeynos. I dont buy that typical "Oh but I'm a good troll" as its just crap. I know that there are probably lots of kiddies that like the idea of playing a good dark elf like Drizzt (D&D novel) but he was meant to an exception. It doesnt really work when large bands of dark elves are roaming freely around Qeynos. At one point an ogre in my group slew a qeynosian guard and all I could do was just sit by and watch or join in! How ridiculous!

I am well aware that this doesnt stop me from playing the game and I am still having fun with it of course. Many of my guild members are a mixture of good and evil. It just seems a shame to me that SOE didnt make their game fit with the original setting and lore. They created a story and then just abandoned it in the game. Very few players I have spoken to about it seem to be bothered by it which seems kind of odd to me really. Although roleplaying has always been a generally pointless excercise in mmos (afterall you cant do anything meaningful that has any impact on the static gameworld can you) I often like chatting in character to keep up the immersion factor. However the fact that being good or evil in this game is irrelevant makes roleplaying even more pointless. It would be nice if there was a server that didnt allow evil and good players to mix with each other or betray their home cities (although of course I know there wont evr be one). Then my dwarf would never be faced with the dilemma of having to offend his ancestors by fighting alongside a bloody troll :)

Has anyone else wondered about this or is it just me that likes a little consistency in my games?

ps. Before anyone says it, I know that I can just refuse to group with evil players but thats not really the point is it.

Actually, I welcome the fact that in EQ2 you can betray sides. It's one of the only games that has this feature and imo is more in the roleplay spirit than not having it. Like in D&D, there are always exceptions, such as the fallen angel and the redeemed demon/devil. True, they're meant to be exceptions, but then if you look at it that way, every single player is an exception because they're always more powerful than the non-adventuring NPCs that are strolling around villages, towns, whatever. Does that mean that there are too many exceptional characters walking around? Yes it does, but then that is the nature of gaming.

If  you do come across something like a Troll Paladin, he's no longer evil, he's good. I would go by the class more than the actual race of the character. And if you're into roleplay, it's more to do with how the person roleplays his character than the race/class combo.

isn't most mmo's good vs evil , light vs darkness??

Originally posted by APRAurore

Actually, I welcome the fact that in EQ2 you can betray sides. It's one of the only games that has this feature and imo is more in the roleplay spirit than not having it. Like in D&D, there are always exceptions, such as the fallen angel and the redeemed demon/devil. True, they're meant to be exceptions, but then if you look at it that way, every single player is an exception because they're always more powerful than the non-adventuring NPCs that are strolling around villages, towns, whatever. Does that mean that there are too many exceptional characters walking around? Yes it does, but then that is the nature of gaming.

 

If  you do come across something like a Troll Paladin, he's no longer evil, he's good. I would go by the class more than the actual race of the character. And if you're into roleplay, it's more to do with how the person roleplays his character than the race/class combo.

Like I said most players of EQ2 have this view. Thats fine for them of course. Its also why I have now left the game and gone back to playing WoW (yet again). I like the level of detail in EQ2 (although the gameworld is certainly very lifeless and wooden in comparison) but despite its cartoony look WoW sticks to its storyline and has a much more convincing and well designed gameworld. It perhaps wouldnt be too bad in EQ2 if it wasnt for the fact that the races are so extremely different. However I cant just "ignore" the players race when they are a hulking giant Ogre or some green, slimy, snarling Troll......a very clearly racial enemy of a Dwarf, Halfling or an Elf for example. SOE may as well go the whole way and allow us to play as Gnolls and Orcs or any of the other monsters for that matter.

Actually sod it! I want to play as an evil Undead Sentinel or maybe a Gelatinous Cube that has decided to betray its kind and be "nice and fluffy", completely going against the essence of what it actually is. Antonia Bayle can then go to war against Freeport with her army of undead, demonic monsters! Hmmm......Lord of the Rings would have been a brilliant film if SOE had got involved with it lol. Orcs and Goblins fighting alongside Elves and Dwarves! Fantastic!! LMAO!

As for roleplaying it......well......there isnt really any choice is there. Its not down to the players.....its down to what the badly designed game says......and if the Troll player has done the stupid task of killing a billion Gnolls so he can be labeled as "fluffy" then there isnt anything I as a player can do about it is there. Thats not roleplay. Thats having my ability to roleplay effectively taken away.......but like I said roleplaying doesnt really matter in mmos and EQ2 highlights that even more than other games.

Originally posted by funnylumpy

isn't most mmo's good vs evil , light vs darkness??

Yeah.....ummm.....you missed the point.

Most games are indeed based on a good vs evil plot. However most games stick to the plot while EQ2 does not. Your alignment is clearly defined at character creation by your race (which then gives you access to the relevantly associated good or evil class) but it allows creatures of opposite alignments to work together which is ridiculous.

Personally I believe this comes from two things - the "war" in the EQ2 world was always considered more of a cold war, competing cities with different ideas taking different paths to success, and was never an out an out war. There never was an idea that this was the kind of hot war between the factions as in WoW for example.  Also, with being able to betray between factions as the designers intended, the sort of rigid faction structure you seem to want could never happen.

I'd say really your only options for making it like this are playing on the PVP server, or just roleplaying that you won't group with the other side. It definitely limits your grouping options though.

Originally posted by Peregrine2

Personally I believe this comes from two things - the "war" in the EQ2 world was always considered more of a cold war, competing cities with different ideas taking different paths to success, and was never an out an out war. There never was an idea that this was the kind of hot war between the factions as in WoW for example.  Also, with being able to betray between factions as the designers intended, the sort of rigid faction structure you seem to want could never happen.

 

I'd say really your only options for making it like this are playing on the PVP server, or just roleplaying that you won't group with the other side. It definitely limits your grouping options though.

Yeah your right. Thats just the way EQ2 has evolved unfortunately. I'm sure I remember it being much better and more believable in the original EQ but maybe evil and good races liked each other in that one too. I'm sure they didnt though. Oh well there will be better games coming out anyway so no worries. I dont play EQ2 now anyway as its far too poncy for my tastes so its not really an issue for me any more.

OP excellent point.

Originally posted by Elsabolts

OP excellent point.

Thankyou. At last I can rest comfortably in the knowledge that I am not the only one. It seems that not everyone is so willing to suck up any junk SOE feeds them in an attempt to pander to fluffy people.

Oh I've made an evil troll character but my friend is a good fairy. SOE please make it so we can play together even though by the nature of the game we obviously should not be able to! Boo hoo hoo!

Trolls and Fairie