Profile: Gishgeron
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| Username | Gishgeron  |
| Real Name | |
| Rank | Apprentice Member |
| Joined | March 5, 2007 |
| Gender | Male |
| Age | 25 |
| Location | Princeton, KY, United States |
| Last Visit | September 23, 2008 |
| Post Count | 900 |
| Biography | Games Playing/played: |
| Quote |
Latest Blog Entry - Some thoughts about the MMO Guild struture
From my blog Weekly Random Meaningful Blabber [Gishgeron]
Anytime I post on these forums, and find a position which strikes me as interesting, I feel the need to blog about it. Now, normally, I repress this urge and just go about my way. Most of it would not amount to much in the way of discussion or debate anyway, and I prefer that my blogs at least offer up something to consider when viewing them. At least, thats what I want from my "non-review" blogs.
So, to preface this whole matter, let me begin by saying that I've recently been active around here in discussions which made me really think about the way we view guilds in the MMO genre...and the effects this view has had on gameplay mechanics thus far. I realize that my posts can be a little...aggressive...from time to time, and that I may not always present my thoughts in the best manner possible in a given thread. Because of this, I actually decided to sit down with you all on this particular matter and actually blog it. My hopes are to present this a little more maturely, and with a little more open-mindedness than I sometimes share in the actual forums.
I'm not too proud to admit my own failings :P On to the subject matter.
We all understand the basics of the Guild structure in MMO's today. Groups of people get together, and form a glorified friends list of players in which to organize and engage in larger content. This system is controlled wholly by the players themselves...an identity crafted by them and only them, and even comes with its own literal system of reputation behind it. I recently discovered that this system is actually causing problems in open-ended development in the genre, though, and I'd like to explain why.
When you have a game which focuses all of its content development around these Guilds, you also take with that a very harsh form of gating that prevents the community from actually opening up. It almost sounds ludicrous when you say it aloud at first, that a community FEATURE could actually be breaking a community down, but its true. This focus for Guilds breaks the "massive" community down into segments, fragmented sections of players which form these Guilds. These segments do not actually involve themselves with the rest of the world, because doing so is a distraction from the game design...which forces the guilds to constantly operate together for maximum effectiveness in progression.
This matter translates over to the player poorly, actually. In one particular forum a poster brought up how open GTA IV was compared to the "open massive worlds" prescribed by MMO gaming culture. The openness of it is centered around the freedom of the individual to do what he wants, and involve himself in whatever he wishes. It presents a situation where the day to day goals of the player can change, and are even encouraged to do so. Guild-Focused content can never be this way, and the structure of the progression forces the individual to remove any personal goals for the sake of becoming involved in the Guild goals. Granted, its not just guild systems which present this issue...gear and level based progression also have their hand in it. But if we are going to address one face of the monster, I feel we should address all of its many heads as well.
I think that these games need to go back to their community roots. Ideally, factional systems BACKED by player controlled guild formats would be the best incarnation...so long as the content is based solely on the individual and factional goals, and not the guild goals. Guilds should form naturally as players of like mind meet and wish to combine their similar goals. Instead, the monster we have now gives us only ONE option. Its an insult even TO the Guilds of todays MMO's...because they have nothing to truly involve themselves in. They have no options, no freedom, no anything really. They are forced into one of two gaming options, and neither of those do anything to actually make proper use of the ability to bring like minded people together. They are glorified carrot-stick situations, and a weak when compared to the plethora of wonderful ideals floating around between the many games available.
I'd like to know how many of you feel the same way about this. Is the current Guild-centric structure really damaging the potential of the genre as much as a I think? Am I simply being exaggerated for the sake of making a point? Does this market NEED to scrap its old ways and rethink the usage of a community better?
Feel free to talk! I would love to hear what many of you have to say on this. If the debate warrants it, I may copy paste this into a forum for easier access and reading.
Read more from my blog [Gishgeron]
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- Wow... just, wow...
In reading this thread....I stumbled onto someone who mentioned that SOE would never roll back solely for pride.
I actually disagree with that...I think that 2 major factors contribute to it these days.
1: The NGE is actually better...but the loss of the intricate skill tree system ruined its potential
and
2: They can no longer even come close to being able to afford to employ people to keep up with such intricate stuff in a way which would cause heavy growth. They dropped the ball, decided to ride it out past the inevitable storm (which they saw coming) in hopes that it would pass. It didn't. They lost too much return revenue, and now, they gotta play the cards they're dealt.
There is great truth in that MMO's rely desperately on initial growth. All the backing for the game and its support comes from investors at first, and subscribers second. Within months past release, they are running on nothing but sub cash. You gots no sub cash...then its a downhill battle. At best, a company does good to simply tourniquet the wound and stop hemmorhaging. Growth past a position of loss usually fails.
I can see how they were losing subs back in the glory days. Bugs and bland gameplay were always working against mainstream growth. They took a very ignorant step to correct the blandness of its gameplay. I'll actually credit them for a mild success...as I can easily see how the system they INTENDED to employ was very much better. Like most early MMO companies (and even still today, I'm looking at YOU AoC) they failed to understand the need to be very sluggish when releasing a new system. Working out small kinks makes for major improvement. They rushed a good ideal out too fast, and it dropped.
More than anything....the loss of the skill tree was heavy. It contributed to most of what made the game die. You see, its not nessecarily that the skill tree was BETTER than classes. The REAL problem is...the skill tree WAS the game. The design of SWG was very weak on content. Most of the content relied heavily on player infused and created stuff...and almost half of that relied on the skill tree system to amuse people into grinding for a good portion of their time. In a true level/class system...the content is played out through carefully crafted dungeons and story...backed with obvious gear and reward progression.
SWG did not have that. They moved the game into a level/class system without all the many things that make those games work. There weren't enough quests, not enough dungeons. Simply put, there wasn't enough actual level/class content to back it up. The game was still sitting in the design of player-made content, but without the "player-made" characters to support it. The social system that made the game bearable falls apart when you remove the basic social elements of non-combat skill trees. It was a rollercoaster now...but with very few interesting dives and turns. Rollercoaster games only work with lots of interesting spins on the trip.
- Posted: 9/23/08 1:58 AM
Star Wars Galaxies
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- More LVLs anyone
I actually am AGAINST the ideal of ever adding levels to an MMO. Its not really content, and it tends to break things that were working just fine before. The problem isn't a lack of levels...its a lack of good content at endgame. I think that they should really expand on the Hero-Villain thing...in similar trend to the ideal of AA's or Renow (as seen in EQ and WAR respectively). Give those supergroups something to bloody DO. I swear, thats probably the ONE thing the game lacks, in my mind.
I cannot imagine a super group in any comic which did nothing more than offer a base and thats all. There should be some kind of content which is gated for it...encounters with villan groups. Base invasion, group battles. They should have PvP zones set up for Hero-Villain control...and I mean actual control, not just some funny text. I could go into great detail here, but I'll save it for another day. If any of you are really curious, I can go over some of the more detailed elements to what I'm thinking of. Otherwise, lets just say I think adding levels is really dumb...and potentially breaks more class related issues than the extra 3 days of playtime gives us.
- Posted: 9/21/08 11:13 PM
City of Heroes
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- Hype Deflation
People skew the numbers often. As has been said, the DF fans are doing some right now. Naturally, I tossed a "1" at it just so that between me and one of them voting a 10...it would balance out to a number I found more reasonable for a game with so little to show.
Its not a big deal really...its just a hype meter. Worry more about the rating meter. All games suffer from skewed hype...and, really, thats kinda the point of hype when you think about it.
- Posted: 9/13/08 1:15 PM
General Discussion
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- Hypemeter Darkfall No 1 in 10 days!
I launched a "1" as well.
When a hype meter jumps like that...its indicative of people making lots of new accounts to force the numbers high. Can't agree with that kind of stuff. So I just use my little ole' single account to counter it. The best part is....we don't even need to try that hard to undo all of that "Fanboy" assault stuff. It only needs to drop .02 points to fall of the list.
My last rating was actually a 6.
I think that makes me a bad person.
- Posted: 9/13/08 1:08 PM
Darkfall
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- WAR is WoW with slower combat.
Originally posted by fingis
WAR is WoW with slower combat.
And fewer choices, no fear, no feign death, no blink, no charge and so on. WAR is a dumbed down version of WoW.
So...what your are saying is that I won't have to spend months watching them constant go back over classes WITH fear? Oh, and I won't have to watch them BASICALLY render Feign Death useless in PvP? Or perhaps I will not, also, have to watch them redirect every last class in the game because they realize how unfair it is for a handful of them to have control but the others not?
The only thing you mentioned that carries any merit is fear...and really, fear is just a hold that makes you wander around for a few seconds. The same thing can be accomplished by rooting a players and moving behind him...and even then I could care less about not having it really.
On the flip side...WoW doesn't give me loot for PvP, nor does it offer me xp for it. The only way to "get" anything for WoW PvP is to grind honor, which basically only rewards you for PvPing for a week or more all the time. Then, you have to go grind out gold so you can fuel the PvP you are having all the time.
I would make a stab at YOU being a dumbed down version of something...but, I don't really feel like flaming THAT hard just yet today.
- Posted: 9/13/08 12:54 PM
WAR (Warhammer Online)
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