Profile: markoraos
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• • General: '08 Awards: Most Innovative Feature

  • I'd vote for PQs. The system is addressing and solving so many problems inherent in PvE multiplayer that it is a real wonder no one thought of it before.

    The one in WAR is pretty basic at the moment but it is quite obvious that it can be improved and evolved in so many ways in the future.

    I'm 100% sure that PQs will become a staple of future MMOs, pretty much like solo quests, instanced dungeons etc etc.

    In addition it is a "true MMO" invention because it is applicable only to the mmo genre and it stems from the specific MMO qualities - namely persistent multiplayer environment.

    So it's definitely PQs for me, whether they are really that great in practice in WAR is immaterial (I think they are but that's my opinion) - what is truly revolutionary is their concept and I'm sure that the genre will benefit immensely by its introduction.

  • Posted: 12/02/08 10:06 AM
    General Discussion
• • This Editorial explains exactly what I think is wrong with Warhammer.

  • Originally posted by neonwire
    
    

    Motive? Why should there be a motive? This is a harmless forum where we can waste our time typing out our thoughts purely for the sake of amusement.

    Why do I troll these forums? Well for the same reason that you troll them of course.

    I'm not advertsiing WoW. I dont play the game and I have not done so for years. Obviously I am making lots of references to WoW because WAR is very clearly copied from that game. Deny it all you want but everyone else can see it so why cant you? There are an endless number of threads also stating the same thing.

    You keep saying "Well I am just enjoying it for what it is" which is another way of saying "Yes the game is crap but I am able to enjoy it by overlooking all the bad bits". Thats fine of course as thats your opinion and your choice. No matter how crap a game is there will always be people who enjoy it.

    I like the way that you automatically decide that I dont understand how the game works simply because I think its rubbish. Yeah sure I'm just missing out on all the hidden "fantastic complexities" (that was priceless!) of this exciting game......or maybe I cant get much enjoyment out of this sorry excuse for a game because I have higher standards than you do? Yep that is indeed my loss. I wish I could enjoy badly designed games like you do but I just cant stoop that low no matter how hard I try. Damn me for being able to see straight through weak and shallow game design.

    Also why do you say "Go back to WoW and leave others to enjoy their game in peace"? How am I stopping you or anyone from doing that? What the hell are you doing on these forums anyway if the game is so much fun? Why dont you go back to WAR? Stop trolling these forums looking to argue with anyone who doesnt agree with you that WAR is brilliant and leave us to talk about mmos in peace 

     

    Lol you still don't get what I'm trying to say here do you?

    I'm not saying that WAR is brilliant. There are things in it that do piss me off to no end and stuff that I think I could have designed better and with more forethought.

    HOWEVER, the game is not as you're wont to say complete rubbish because it simply isn't. I hate WoW and what it did to the mmo scene but I will admit that it did some things right. For you, on the other hand, it seems that there is absolutely nothing good in WAR whatsoever... and even if there are good things in it you will simply walk over them, without even noticing them because you have decided beforehand that "WAR is a WoW clone."

    You are not seeing things objectively. You see WAR for what you want to see - a WoW clone. And any argument to the contrary is simply discarded as inconsequential. You played WAR expecting it to be WoW2 and saw what you wanted to see. I played WAR in intentionally the opposite way I have played WoW and came to a completely different set of conclusions. However I'm having fun in WAR and you aren't. This proves who is playing the game correctly - If I played soccer according to basketball rules, expecting it to be "basketball clone" I wouldn't be having much fun either. It is as simple as that.

     

     

  • Posted: 12/01/08 7:09 AM
    WAR (Warhammer Online)
• • Where to start your character (Short Server Guide, Long Discussion)

  • Imo your info is a bit outdated...

    Since the EU server transfers started Karak-Norn and Karak-Izor (both Eng)have become very viable. They're both med/med now but still retain xp/rp buffs as an incentive to move there.

    I play on Karak-Norn and it's been really hectic this past week. Open RvR is alive and well and there is no problem with finding groups or people in general. I heartily recommend it to new EU players.

    The other day I rolled a Runepriest alt and was shocked with the amount of players in T1. I suppose most are alts like me but I met a few guys who were former destros from other servers. What's the situation in other tiers I honestly don't know but T1 and T4 are very alive right now.

  • Posted: 12/01/08 5:22 AM
    WAR (Warhammer Online)
• • This Editorial explains exactly what I think is wrong with Warhammer.

  • Originally posted by neonwire
    

    Originally posted by markoraos
    

    Originally posted by neonwire
    

    Originally posted by markoraos
    

    I pretty much agree with the post.

    I particularly like how the writer correctly identified the core issue - while players ARE playing wrongly, it is ultimately Mythic's fault in failing to show them clearly enough how to play correctly.

    I've been shouted down many times on these boards that I'm blaming players for not playing the game as it should be played. I'm not saying that the game isn't to blame... just that with some more incentive and imaginativeness they could have much much more fun. (stop q-ing for that damn scenario, join a PQ group and suggest "hey lets take a few BOs and a keep for a change?" - when you take a few some enemies are bound to notice and start harassing your band... and voilla - there's your open RvR starting  to roll.)

    Sadly a lot of people are not ready for that kind of taking things into their own hands and fully expect the game to lead them by their noses. I blame WoW for that - if WAR released 5 years ago we'd have no such problems whatsoever - mmos were played exactly for this open-endedness and freedom to do your own thing and take initiative. Today it's a different matter - most players fully expect to be led by the hand step by step through the game with easy-to-read signs on the way. If they don't see those signs flashing in bright neon they automatically assume that there is nothing there. If it's not advertised it simply doesn't exit for them.

    
     

    I dont agree with that. The players are playing the game EXACTLY the way it has been designed. People ARE totally ready to take things into their own hands and fight for things in games.......but there has to be a reason to do it. In WAR that reason doesnt exist.

    There is a reason. It is called FUN. I will not play in a certain way that I don't find fun just because it gives me the most xp/hour. I pay and play games to have FUN and not work for rewards. That's why I've been leveling slowly and had a lot of fun and made a bunch of new friends on the way.

    I agree that playing the game for fun is the main thing........so in that case why have levels at all? WAR doesnt need them.

    Well that's one thing we might agree on - I think WAR would be a better game without the whole level/tier thing as well.

    I'm thinking now about why I enjoy playing Battlefield 2142. Its because the game is fun and also because my actions on each map contribute to me winning the overall battle. I dont play it to "level up" or in BF's case to unlock items. I can take control points and those control points actually mean something in a strategic sense as players can respawn from them. This allows my side to "push forwards" and drive the enemy back. It "feels" like I am in an intense battle.

    So what's different here? In WAR you take over BOs and keeps and win scenarios in order to push the enemies back and siege their capital. This argument makes no sense whatsoever. If you play WAR for any other reason then you play it wrong. This just strengthens my argument that you are trying to play it like like WoW and are naturally coming off disappointed.

    WAR doesnt have this. It can be classed as fun but only in a light-hearted "nothing matters" kind of way. You can have the same level of fun PvPing in WoW that you can in WAR. Also "fun" is a subjective thing and the reason so many people are playing in scenarios is because of "fun". Other people find switching off their brains and grinding away endlessly on static PvE mobs to be fun.

    That's where you are completely and utterly wrong. It is simply amazing that you can claim that WAR has no strategic or long-term depth and BF2142 has..... That's completely ridiculous. It looks to me that you expected a WOW clone, played it as a WoW clone and missed 80% of the game.

    For me personally if I am going to play an mmo that has RvR in it then if I know that my efforts are not achieving anything within the game (I'm talking from a strategic sense here not just leveling my own character) then it has a severe effect on the fun factor. Basicly I couldnt get much enjoyment out of WAR because it was so clearly obvious how shallow the game was. I could help to take a keep back but it just didnt have any impact on the game world.

    That's your problem mate. Whatever you play have fun there. Just because you were clearly unable to understand how the game works doesn't give you the right to go all high and mighty on people who actually did.  

    The main focus of the game is level grinding. Its a linear story where the objective is to get to level 40 and have a big never-ending fight between the two main cities. Yeah sure players can choose to fight over keeps along the way if they want to but whats the point when taking one doesnt really have much impact on anything and certainly doesnt hinder them in any way on their levelling treadmill. Sure it does have some impact on opening up the enemy city but thats endgame content so most people dont give a shit about it. Why go to the effort of fighting over objectives in rooms 1-3 when the only result is that the people in room 4 can attack the city?

    Your idea that the main focus of the game is level grinding is just plain WRONG. Me and my friends who came from WoW absolutely love the way that everything you do in the game is rewarding in some way and that leveling is something that actually happens spontaneously. I know it is hard to understand  to many but we play the game to enjoy ourselves - the game ITSELF is enjoyable - usually I don't even realize I leveled. I simply do not care about levels - I'm more into bashing those destros, completing as many PQs to see that happens next etc. 

    You know, ages ago people played games to enjoy them. Games were played for entertainment they provide at any moment. Today we have this horrifying WoW mindset where the actual enjoyment of the game is secondary to "achievements" in it. In short players are brainwashed to think that the purpose of playing a game is to grind XP or whatever as fast as posssible rather than enjoying the game for itself with rewards and advancement happening spontanously along the way.

    Then I say again that WAR should not have levels in it. But then would players enjoy playing the game if there was nothing to be "gained" by killing boring PvE mobs?

    Sorry but the main focus of the game IS level-grinding. The objective of the game is to reach the enemy capital city and to get there you have to gain levels. Yes levelling is something that happens spontaneously.......so why is it then that the only way Mythic can get the players to participate in keep battles is by offering more exp and gear? The answer is because all of the so-called "content" in the game is dependant on the players being a certain level which gives them access to the "next room". The game is built on a levelling treadmill........it literally is a conveyor belt that funnels you in a line from rooms 1 - 4.

    So yes to move forwards in the game the players MUST gain levels. The RvR areas are just optional side-rooms. Of course a player might go into one and then get killed by someone who is of a higher level than them so they think "Right ok the only way to beat that player is to go up levels myself". So they increase their level and then find that the conveyor belt is nudging them onwards to the next room because they have outleveled the room they are currently in. In the next room they encounter more higher level players and so the cycle repeats itself.

    I have no idea what you're talking about here. Again i play the game to have fun. Doing scenarios is fun. Doing PQs and open RvR is fun. That I gain some levels along the way is just something that happens. Woah, what a concept?!?!?

    As for open RvR in lower tiers... Well there are impacts on T4 open RvR. I know some people who came to 40 just by grinding scenarios and doing solo quests. They don't have friends to call in times of need. They don't know influential proactive people on the server. They do not understand how open RvR mechanics work. They do not really understand the wider picture that is realm war and their sense of realm pride is very mixed at best. What they got is a bag of xp and some gear which don't count as much in the final battles as all the things I listed above. They played the game WoW-style and still they don't get it.

    Sorry but you're talking as though WAR is a complex game and that players need to train themselves to play it the right way. They dont know how the RvR mechanics work? Ermmm....whats difficult to understand? WAR is incredibly easy to understand. I think everyone does get it ya know. It doesnt take long to pick up.

    Oh actually it is a very complex game. Try actually gaining access to the enemies capital - it requires server-wide coordination in 2 out of 3 pairings (that's continents for you wow people) simulataneously and on the level of group PvE, instanced PvP and open world PvP.... simultaneously. It is fantastically complex, in fact. However you wouldn't know that? Don't you? Because it is a "WoW clone". Well if still you like to think that then I can do nothing about it.

    ......and thats one of the big problems with the game. Everyone is seperated and spread out between rooms 1-4 because of their levels. There is no reason to stay and defend anything because you are forced along the levelling treadmill. The game only alllows you to stay still and think for yourself once you get to the end because then the treadmill is over and there are no more bloody levels to gain so the player can focus on what matters and fight for their realm.

    I don't know about you, but I play to have fun and getting rewards is something that happens along. On the other hand you seem to be exactly the opposite - play for rewards and if you're lucky you might even have some fun along.
    

    No I like to see my actions have an impact on the game world but thats just me personally. I dont mind grinding levels and collecting gear as thats all you can really do in most mmos. However WAR is supposed to be an RvR game and yet its RvR has no impact on anything. I came to WAR for the virtual war.....not to have a bunch of silly meaningless play-fights. Its just not my idea of fun but each to their own of course.

    The constant battles in Battlefield 2142 are much more "fun" than the occasional scraps in WAR and I dont have to pay a monthly fee for it.

    You're just one of those bitter brain-washed souls who came to WAR from WoW, found the first warcamp and queued for scenarios. No wonder you have no idea what this game is all about.

    Good riddance I say. I just don't know why you feel this need to troll these forums?

    For example, I'll go defending a keep in T2 with  my alt and his buddies just because it is fun and I won't give them damn destros a satisfaction of taking one of our keep. Getting some fat xp/rp/gear is nice but isn't crucial for my enjoyment. I play for the experience of it, not some pixel rewards.

    And besides in this T2 keep example the most important thing is meeting new people and especially new players and instilling in them a sense of Realm Pride - the feeling that they are fighting for a good cause. In the long run this counts for much much more than plain levels and gear when it comes to T4 battles. It is amazing how much group morale and just plain WAAAGH! means in this game!

    Realm pride? What is there to be proud of? You take a keep. They take it back. Thats all anyone can do. Whoever has the highest level wins. There is no real ownership of anything in this game. Its all too trivial and shallow to feel any pride for anything. I feel pride when I create something amazing or achieve something through hard work. The only thing you can achieve in this game is to win a keep which is irrelevant anyway because it will just get taken back when everyone has gone to bed.

    Lol you are so ignorant it beggars belief. You came int WAR with your preconceptions and absolutely no willingness to change them under any circumstances. Keeps are not the "end all" of all the RvR lol. But hey you wouldn't know that - you have your ideas of what WAR should have been like and now you're mightily pissed - probably something along "who has the most keeps wins" loooooll and you're so stuck with it you're unable to see any other possibility how to set up the RvR systems in order to avoid the pitfalls inherent to his idealistic but actually very flawed and primitive model. Who cares? I don't. I'm enjoying the game for what it is and not for what MMO I myself would like to design if I had those 50 million bucks.

    Take EVE as an example. Forget about the mechanics of the game but pay attention to the fact that there is no particular place that anyone is being shepharded towards. Also players of any level or experience and go anywhere and fight over and control different areas. In WAR this is impossible. Thinking for yourself and trying to do something worthwhile is impossible. You either follow the levelling treadmill and move from one room to the next or you.....what? What else would you do? What other goal could you possibly set for yourself?

    I won't go into EVE but this idea that WAR gives no room for initiative is just plain nonsense. It is all about personal initiative in WAR. I can't count how many times a single person turned the tide of battle in scenarios or open RvR. Just 2 guys with a bit of will can start an open RvR campaign leading to the enemies capital gates. I'd say that WAR demands a bit too much initiative from me sometimes. As for individual goals... looooll.... Here's a few: 1) Collect fluff from ToK unlocks 2) Build and level a guild 3) make a lot of friends 4) Create a reputation for yourself 5) Help out lowbies with your alts 6) Organize and lead an alliance 7) Explore as much world as possible 8) Annoy enemy faction (that's what I do) 9) Help out your faction's economy by crafting (my wife is really into it - cultivator/alchemist with a web of barter contracts, her potions turned more than one scenarios' outcome) etc etc, pick one or pick a few.

    OK lets go through that "grand list" of goals then.....

    1. Collect fluff from ToK unlocks: Its fluff and its doesnt mean anything so why bother.

    2. Build and level a guild: Oh yay more level grinding. What fun.

    3. Make a lot of friends: LOL! Thats not a goal to aim for in WAR. Its a standard part of life.

    4. Create a reputation for yourself: Oh my god you really are padding it all out arent you. Yeah cos you're avatar is SO different to everyone elses. The way you kill things is SO unique. Oh my gosh have you heard of Zarkon the Slayer? The way he swings his mighty blade is so awesome to behold. He is a legend across the land. Everyone fears him. Travellers tell tales of him round their camp fires.

    5. Help out lowbies with your alts: HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Firstly why would a lowbie need anyones help in this game? Basicly "helping lowbies" is just another way of saying "play the game from the beginning again in the exactly the same way that everyone else is playing it". So......you have your level 30 Orc and you think "Hmm....what should I do now? Ah yes I know I will log out of the game and play as a lower level character and play the game with other lower level characters". Wow thats just awesome! What an amazing objective!

    6. Organize and lead an alliance: .......to do what? Again thats not an objective. You're just turning a basic part of what you already have to do to play the game into a seperate goal. Again you are just padding it out......clutching at straws.

    7. Explore as much world as possible: In other words just "walk around" or in WARs case "walk in a straight line". Brilliant! Whats one of the goals you can aim for in WAR? Hold down the W key and watch the static landscape slide by. Again....more padding.

    8. Annoy enemy factions: More padding. How would you annoy them? By taking keeps and killing them......by doing the only things in the game that you are actually able to do basicly. In other words "play the game how it has been designed". Great! Basicly "annoying" the enemy faction is about the only thing you can do in this so-called war lol

    9. Help out your factions economy by crafting: !!!!!!!!! What economy? The game doesnt have a working economy. Oh great so you can sit there for ages bored out of your skull growing plants, making potions, breaking down items and making talismans and then selling them cheaply to other players in your faction who have huge amounts of money to spend because they have nothing else to buy. What a joke!

    Out of those 9 points only number 1 is an actual objective that can be achieved in the game and its a shallow & pointless one at that. All the other points are not specific to WAR and are in fact simply general aspects of playing any mmo. You are clearly clutching at straws and highlighting the fact that WAR is simply another linear static mmo in which the players cant really achieve anything or do anything that has any impact on the so-called gameworld.

    Here are a few more additional "objectives" that the players could attempt to achieve with their initiative. These additional objectives all have the same level of value that your 9 objectives have.

    10. Watch a film while playing the game.

    11. Activate every emote on every npc in the game.

    12. Compile a photo-album of WAR by taking screenshots of all the nice views in the game.

    13. Say hello to every player you see.

    14. Play every class in the game to max level.

    15. Drink at least 10 cups of coffee during each play session.

    16. Each time you go to fight for a keep actually put on real armour to increase the immersion factor.

    17. Run a full circle around every tree in the game.

    The list could go on but I'm getting bored and if I wanted to experience that feeling then I would just go and play WAR.

    Won't really bother replying with this. Why don't you go back to WoW and leave people enjoying this game in peace? You're getting really droll you know.

    Yeah I suppose you could blame WoW......but you would be wrong to do so. Blame WAR for copying WoW. People play WAR in the same way that they play WoW because WAR has exactly the same game design. Of course they are going to play the game the same way. Thats how it has been made. People can only do what the game allows them to do.

    A lot of people expected a WoW clone so they played it that way, either consciously or not. WAR is NOT a WoW clone, especially not on a very fundamental level - the reason to play/ goal of the game. WoW is a me-me-me game where individual achievement ultimately in the form of gear is paramount. WAR is not - it is a group goal game. I see a lot of old time WoW players thinking that getting gear is the reason to go capital sieging... Well they're wrong: getting gear or levels is just another thing to help you achieve the ultimate goal - dominate the other side.
    

    When I get a nice purple drop I consider it great because it'll help me pwn those destros better. I do not go fighting those destros so I can get purple drops. It is the opposite way around.

    Yes it IS a WoW clone. Of course it bloody is! A lot of people are playing WAR in the same way that they play WoW because THE GAME IS DESIGNED THAT WAY. It is designed on a "me me me" concept. Thats why the only way Mythic can get players to participate in RvR battles is by throwing rewards at them. If they actually gave other reasons to do things then they wouldnt have that problem.......but they havent. Those reasons simply are not there. The RvR in WAR is as meaningless as it is in WoW.

    You have no idea what you're talking about. WoW twisted you and you cannot comprehend anything else. It is really sad. Really really sad. Go back to WoW. That's probably the only thing you're able to understand.

    WAR is a group goal game? Oh really so thats why so many players can get to see the whole game from start to finish by simply grinding out levels in exactly the same way that they did with WoW. You dont even need to talk to anyone in WAR to make progress. Sure it helps if you communicate with your "realm buddies" but it certainly isnt neccessary to see everything this washout of a game has to offer.

    Lol, I'm not going out to see a movie because it is "necessary". Nor am I going out for a beer with my mates because it is "necessary". This is something that WoW burned out of you - the very idea that you can do things in mmos for fun rather than because it is "necessary." For me WAR brought FUN back into mmos. You can do what's "necessary" in your beloved WoW. Again, why are you here?

    Again WoW is not to blame for WARs failure. WAR is to blame for WARs failure for being a WoW clone. The players are not to blame either. They are just playing WAR in exactly the right way......in other words they are playing it like they played WoW which is the game that WAR has been based on.

    You are clueless. You see what you want to see and there is no arguing with that. It is a pity though, for you and not me. Let me just ask you one thing - why is it sooo very very important for you to come here and troll WAR, advertising WoW all the way through? Please why? Is it just plain insecurity or is there some other motive?

     

    
     

     

  • Posted: 11/30/08 2:38 PM
    WAR (Warhammer Online)
• • This Editorial explains exactly what I think is wrong with Warhammer.

  • Originally posted by bluesession
    

    WAR failed in so many ways that is imposible to name them all in a single page. But still i wan't to point out someting i have been thinking while i red this and that is Clases

    All the clases are the same and there is almost not interactions between them, how is that you ask?

    Well, lets pick a side for example, Order:

    Whitch hunter: Meele DPS.

    Bright Wizard: Ranged DPS

    Warrior Priest: Tank/Healer

     

    Engineer: Ranged DPS

    Runemaster: Healer

    Iron Breaker: Tank

     

    Sword Master: Tank

    White Lion: Meele DPS

    Archmage: Healer

    Shadow Warrior: Ranged DPS

     

    See the patron? i color-coded it so it is even more obvious.

    There is no buffers or debuffers.

    The buffs (like prismatic shield) are laughable, and the debuffs usually last so little time that is almost imposible to use them, either that or they get cancelled when you use them.

     

    That leads to the combat, which is always the same, spam a key and hope for your enemy to die.

     

     

    Also, i wanted to add. If you are a BW you automatically win all the PQs even if you enter in the 3º fase.

    The engine sucks, even mourkain temple had visual lag for many people, let alone big raids.

     

     

    You talk complete nonsense.

    If guard, taunt and challenge tank buffs/debuffs aren't powerful then I really don't know what is. Tanks are, almost by definition, buffer/debuffers with high survivability.

    And besides the class synergies are precisely what draws me into the game. Try Swordmasters spirit res AOE debuffs with AM or WP spirit damage attacks and heals - you burn through tanks like butter. Sweeet!

    Different classes from the same archetype all have their own bags of tricks. The sorc+magus nastiness you see in T4 cannot be performed with some other class combo (except with engi+BW mirrors)- Each class duo has a different dynamic to master. Me and my wife are altoholics so we kinda got experience with that.

    As for BWs.. lol.. It's not about BWs but group composition. As a tank I destroy Sorcs (BW mirrors). If there are too many of them and destros got enough tanks we are usually annihilated.

  • Posted: 11/30/08 11:14 AM
    WAR (Warhammer Online)